Fighting The Anti-Queer Rightwing
An Interview with Tom Warner


By Gary Kinsman


The moral conservative anti-queer right-wing has mobilized across the country against same-sex marriage. A major space has been opened up for these mobilizations since the Liberal federal government has simply argued that they have no alternative but to follow court rulings. They have undertaken no defence of the equality of queer people. At the same time politicians in very high places are opposed to same-sex marriage. Meanwhile the Catholic church hierarchy and many new right Protestant groups are mobilizing their constituencies against same-sex marriage and queer people more generally. Many queer people report more hatred and bigotry than we have experienced for more than a decade. The legal strategy pursued by "Equality for Gays and Lesbians Everywhere (EGALE) (the major cross-country lesbian and gay legal rights and lobby group) and other mainstream queer groups that have got us into the current situation is incapable of responding to this right-wing campaign. While there have been some queer mobilizations against the right-wing, most notably in Vancouver and Edmonton, there is no consistent attempt to build the grassroots movement and coalitions needed to beat back the right-wing. While it is very likely that there will be a decisive legal victory in relation to same-sex marriage, this may end up doing little to undermine the pervasive heterosexism that permeates this society.

To get more clarity on the situation the queer movement faces and to discuss how to fight back against the right-wing GARY KINSMAN talked with TOM WARNER, a long-time activist with the Coalition for Lesbian and Gay Rights in Ontario (CLGRO). Tom is also the author of Never Going Back: A History of Queer Activism in Canada (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 2002).

GK: Could you tell us a bit about CLGRO and the perspective CLGRO adopts on the same-sex marriage issue.

TW: CLGRO was founded in 1975 as a provincial organization composed of groups and individuals committed to working towards feminism and bisexual, lesbian, and gay liberation. We see the attainment of human rights as necessary, but insufficient to achieve liberation.

CLGRO believes that marriage should be a purely religious ceremony and should no longer have special legal status or privileges. We believe the state should not legally recognize any couple relationships. There should be a system based on the individual as the core unit, with allowance for support of others (such as children). However, if couple-relationships continue to be recognized in law, the designation of another person for benefits should not be restricted to someone with whom there is a sexual/conjugal relationship.

And if the state should continue to regulate and privilege conjugal relationships, there must be full equality for all achieved through registered domestic partnerships. That should be a form of optional civil union that includes opposite-sex and same-sex, married and common-law [couples], all having the same rights, privileges and obligations. We do not support a discriminatory civil unions model that would apply only to same-sex couples, with marriage reserved exclusively for heterosexuals, even if there would be no legal differences between the two in respect of rights, privileges, and obligations.

GK: What is your view of the type of politics developed by EGALE and other mainstream queer groups?

TW: EGALE and other groups like Canadians for Equal Marriage have a strictly equality-seeking politics aimed at assimilating gays and lesbians into the mainstream, as good and equal citizens. Their agenda promotes middle-class values and aspirations. Same-sex marriage is the most obvious example. For these groups, being equal to heterosexuals means being just like them, accepting their values and being accepted by them. They want same-sex relationships validated by the state and by the heterosexual majority. They see no need to work to change how the state views and regulates sexuality and relationships. Their premise is that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the state's regulation, other than it excludes same-sex couples.

From Liberation To Rights

GK: How does this relate to the shift from a politics of liberation to a politics of rights?

TW: Generally queer advocacy groups have abandoned fighting to liberate sexuality from the moral dictates of religion and from state regulation and repression. The focus is exclusively on equality-rights and Charter challenges, on securing formal equality in law. Sexuality issues - fighting against censorship, abolishing the bawdyhouse laws, etc. - they argue are not important, or are too controversial, or hurt campaigns to obtain equal rights. Even EGALE's interventions against Customs censorship in the Little Sister's case or support for those arrested in the police raid on Goliath's bathhouse in Calgary have been limited to court cases or Charter challenges. There has not been a public action focus, or even a response informed by a liberation analysis of sexuality and state repression. There aren't any demonstrations or rallies calling for abolition of repressive sex laws. They have not put into these issues the energy they have put into same-sex marriage.

EGALE's exclusive focus on equality resulted in a very weak response to religious right efforts to have the age of consent increased to 16 years. As far as EGALE is concerned, the age of consent should be equal for both queer and straight sex. In other words, a bad law - whether regulating marriage or that restricts the sexual self-determination of youth - is OK so long as it treats everyone equally.

GK: How does this relate to differences within queer communities in relation to race, class, gender and age?

TW: These issues are simply not being addressed. And as long as the focus of activism remains on same-sex marriage, or attaining other equality-rights, that won't change. The activist agenda is being driven largely by older, urban and middle-class white people of affluence. Winning the right to marry will not fundamentally make your life better if you are queer and homeless or poor, a member of a racial or cultural minority, a young person dealing with homophobia in the school system, living in a care facility for seniors in which there are homophobic staff, or disabled. Your views and priorities are not being brought to that issue, or other issues that most queer groups are organizing around.

GK: You begin to raise important questions of class here but I think we need to go further to challenge the middle class and professional stratum that is currently dominating lesbian and gay politics. This strata has no interest in challenging racism, or class relations, since they fundamentally just want to be let into capitalist social relations.

Beating Back The Right Wing

GK: How do you think we can best fight back against the moral conservative right-wing?

TW: I think it is important to show that the moral conservatives' agenda is much greater than just opposing same-sex marriages. They seek to impose or re-impose their religious beliefs and moral values on the laws and public policy and in state and cultural institutions. They oppose abortion and birth control, want to ban sex education, oppose equity and anti-homophobia policies in schools, seek to raise the age of consent and call for tougher laws against pornography and prostitution. They want to enshrine "parental rights" in laws, and advocate for draconian "child protection" laws that deny basic rights to self-determination for youth. They want the laws and judicial system to support and uphold their moral values, and to ban or punish behaviours that they believe transgress those values.

We need to mount highly visible, public action campaigns to show that they threaten not just gays and lesbians, but many other people as well, especially women and youth. We need to confront them, to generate public discussion and opposition to them. That means working in alliance or coalitions with other communities and groups. But it also means exposing and confronting politicians, the police and the judicial system, which largely are sympathetic towards, if not outright supportive of, the moral conservatives, especially on issues of sexuality.

It is here that the approaches of EGALE and other groups are especially ineffective. You can't effectively fight against the religious right on these issues from an equality-seeking perspective or by asking the courts to invoke Charter rights. The politicians and the courts remain profoundly conservative on these issues. In addition, the religious right constitutes a huge and well-organized constituency. And you can't, in many cases, argue that gays and lesbians are discriminated against when the laws regulating sexuality, for example, also oppress heterosexuals. We must fight against the religious right using an analysis of liberation and oppression, in the way that the feminist, gay liberation and other movements did so effectively in the past.

The Catholic Church Hierarchy

GK: The Catholic Church hierarchy has been a very active part of this right-wing assault. The liberal queer response seems to be that this is uncalled for since noone is talking about forcing the church to marry queers. From a more radical perspective queer liberationists need to move onto the offensive to challenge the power that the church has over young people through the separate school system and in "civil" society. How can we challenge the power of the church?

TW: We must absolutely tackle head on the question of separation of the church and state. Most Canadians don't really appreciate that, constitutionally, there has never been formal separation of church and state in Canada. Even our Charter of Rights and Freedoms states, "Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God". And the special status of Catholic separate schools is protected under the constitution. But what we have seen, especially in recent years, is that separation of church and state has become more accepted as a principle that should inform public policy, although the acceptance at the political level is often little more than lip service. The religious conservatives are hoping to overturn all of that. They cite the reference in the Charter as being a reason why Christian values should be enshrined in our laws. We need to advocate for the repeal of these parts of the constitution and Charter.

We must also expose the big lie spread by the religious right that it is they who are being persecuted, that their rights are being infringed. They denounce as religious bigots anyone who challenges them on these quite absurd assertions. We need to expose the lie that removing discrimination against gays and lesbians, repealing oppressive sex laws, ensuring that religion is kept out of the education system or granting self-determination to young people infringe the right of Christians to practice their religion. What they are really saying is they want special status in law, to have their right to express their religion trump all other rights. What is being threatened is not their right to practice their religion, but their presumption that their religious and moral values should be imposed on everyone else by law, and enforced by the instruments of the state.

We need to address as well the misguided notion that we should simply ignore the religious right, because they are just bigots and are a fringe element. They are bigots, but are by no means a fringe that can be dismissed as having no influence. They have incredible influence. We need to expose the close links that the religious right has with, and the influence they exert over, politicians at all levels, from school boards and municipal councils to Parliament, and in all political parties, including, sometimes, parties that style themselves as progressive.

GK: How can queer movements not just fight for tolerance, assimilation, and rights but move forward towards liberation?

TW: First, our movements need to actively and visibly support, and forge alliances with, other movements. We haven't always done that in the past, partly because, frankly, there often has been homophobia in these other movements or unwillingness to also address queer issues. But queers are found within all genders, races, classes, ages, etc. We can't just focus on the issues that are important to white, middle class queers in the large cities. Second, we need to move beyond equality-seeking and Charter challenges, to get back to liberationist politics, because that is the only way we can achieve broad and inclusive social change, make linkages with other forms of oppression and forge the alliances that need to be made. And we can bring a queer liberation perspective to such issues as fighting against police repression or seeking the repeal of oppressive sex laws like those that criminalize prostitution or so-called bawdy houses.

Engaging Queer Youth

GK: Is there anything else you would like to add?

TW: Our movement desperately needs to engage and involve queer youth. Most of the queer activist groups, CLGRO included, have become disproportionately representative of middle-aged activists. We have lost the youthful energy and, I think, a lot of relevance that were so powerful in the earliest days of our movement. We are not speaking a language, or taking up issues in ways that appeal to younger people. Some of our tactics are outdated. We need to re-articulate queer liberation in a way that ensures that the liberation of consensual sex and of our relationships with each other remains the ultimate objective, without sounding as if we are stuck in a 1970s time-warp.

GK: One part of the solution is to recognize that for many young queer people the old politics of "coming out" and "gay" and "lesbian" identifications no longer has the same relation to their lives. Instead they are far more concerned with transgressing gender and sexual boundaries. It is also the case that queer movements have done little to address the everyday hatred and violence that young queers face in the schools and on the streets or the sort of street politics and battles over social and sexual space that define many young queer people's lives. These need to be central concerns for radical queer activists. We also need to see that there are many young queer activists involved in anti-poverty, global justice, anti-racist and feminist organizing and many of them see little to inspire them in mainstream queer politics. We need to find new ways to connect young activists with a radical queer liberation politics.


Gary Kinsman is a member of the Sudbury Coalition Against Poverty, the Sudbury NSG, and the author of The Regulation of Desire.